STUART: 

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Burning Man LIVE. I’m Stuart Mangrum, and I’m here with my friend and colleague, Burning Man Project’s Art Director Katie Hazard. Hi, Katie.

KATIE: 

Hi, Stuart. I’m happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

STUART: 

Thank you for showing up. Now, I heard a rumor that this year’s art in Black Rock City is going to be the best art year ever. Did you hear that one, too?

KATIE: 

I have heard that same rumor. You know how Burning Man rumors work, though. You start hearing it from around here and then around there, and next thing you know, everyone saying it.

STUART: 

I think it started with the ‘Next year was better’ meme, but I think it’s a little unfair to last year. Last year was pretty amazing for art. I know you’re not supposed to have favorites, but looking back on 2024 art on playa, is there any one that you want to remember? Hold dear to you?

KATIE: 

Oh, I feel like I should have a ready answer, but my mind is so deep in 2025 already, I’m like, wait, what was 2024? It was a wonderful year.

STUART: 

I’ll share mine.

KATIE: 

Okay.

STUART: 

It was Naga and the Captainess.

KATIE: 

Yeah.

STUART: 

The shipwreck with the sea serpent, and for me, the little detail., the cabin, All that interactive, crazy storytelling inside the cabin of the sinking ship, took me back to La Llorona, the sunken ship on The Pier. I just love that, where it’s something that you can kind of go as deep as you want to on. Anyway, I heard that piece is going to Golden Gate Park. Did you hear that story?

KATIE: 

It’s true. Yeah. It’s actually installed in Petaluma right now, temporarily, and then It’s going to get placed in Golden Gate Park. It’s confirmed. In a little pond with a waterfall, the serpent itself will be.

STUART:

Fantastic. 

KATIE: 

Yeah. I can’t imagine something better. And of course, they could have just placed it, you know, 20 feet outside the pond. It would have cost so much less in engineering. But it has to be in the pond. Like, there’s no other… 

STUART: 

You got to get the water. 

KATIE: 

Yeah, you got to get the water. One of my favorites last year actually, was the Jackalope. Do you remember that project? It was right behind the Man.

STUART: 

Oh my God, how could I not?

KATIE: 

So good. And it was from someone who had never brought art before. When you select an Honoraria, you’re taking a risk for sure, ‘cause we don’t ask to see past work, and it’s meant to be a program that welcomes artists at all levels of their careers. And so this guy from Montana submitted this idea, and we were like, “Yeah, that seems totally Burning Man: Desert, Jackrabbit, jackalopey, you know, frankie.” 

And it was so delightful. It was so beautifully done, like his little expression and every last little detail on it. You know, I’m not surprised by as much as I used to be before I had this job. And I like when I’m surprised. That just blew me away, how technically well done it was. It just had such a personality.

STUART: 

Well, I have a soft spot in my heart for the mythical or not-so-mythical jackalope. We’re very close.

KATIE: 

Right.

STUART: 

I don’t believe in spirit animals, but the jackalope is my spirit animal. So this year. Wow. So much to look forward to. Tell us just a little bit about the honorarium program for people who are not familiar with it. We’ve talked about it before. We may have some new listeners. How does the honoraria program work?

KATIE: 

Well, every year at Burning Man, there are almost 400 sculptures, and about 75 of them get some level of funding from the organization, and our annual budget for that is just under 1.5 million. We fund, like I said, about 75 projects. We don’t fund them fully. We fund them between 40 to 60% of their total budget because part of the whole program is about capacity building and a lot of artists have maybe never even submitted a grant before or have never led a project like this before. 

There’s a lot of learning that happens along the way. And one of the things we like to help people learn how to do is fundraise, and also get that level of investment from their community, financially, but, you know, when people contribute, they feel a part of the project also. So we fund about half of the budget in most cases, and we get somewhere around 500 to 600 letters of intent in the fall. We narrow it down to about half of those; we invite them to submit a full proposal. And then of those 350 something, we pick, like I said, about 75. 

One common misconception, I think, is that the funding goes to the really big and really complex projects. And while Naga, as you were mentioning before, certainly was funded by Burning Man Project, this program really looks to fund a range of things like a whole collection. And so we fund some large things, but we fund lots of little and medium and, you know, it’s the main way that there’s any curation of the art because everything is open, anyone else can do whatever they want. And so it’s our way to make sure there’s some stuff for families and things with fire and international projects, and… You know, we really look to not necessarily fund the 75 “best proposals” that we’ve gotten, but a nice collection that has a little bit of everything because so many types of people, you know, come to Black Rock City, and we’re looking for a range of aesthetics, and people that have never even been to Black Rock City, and people that have been coming for 30 years. You know, it’s a real range.

STUART: 

And, just to be clear, the honorarium program does not fund the temple. That’s a separate process, right?

KATIE: 

That’s right. The temple is its own grant program. And so 150,000 of that, almost 1.5, goes to the Temple.

STUART: 

I see. We had Miguel Arraiz on the show not too long ago. I gotta say, his design is pretty radical. It’s, it’s it’s a little controversial out there in the world. Where do you come down on that? What do you think about this year’s very, very unconventional and unusual Temple?

KATIE: 

Well, to be frank, when I very first looked at it, I was kind of like, that doesn’t look like a temple. But then I was like, wait a second…

STUART: 

What did it look like to you?

KATIE: 

Well, I could imagine that as a regular art installation. But it doesn’t look like – there’s kind of a typical aesthetic of a Burning Man temple, and it didn’t fit that pattern. And, then my mind was like, “Wait a second, we’re all about innovation and creativity and trying new things. And what are we trying to do, like replicate how it’s been forever and ever?” It doesn’t have to be that way. And a lot of proposals we get, people think they have to suggest something that looks like what we’ve done before. And so it limits people’s imaginations when they’re thinking about what they might want to propose, and so one of the things I’m excited about is that it is so visually different, and I hope that might inspire more people in future years to think big about what a temple could look like.

STUART: 

You know, it’s funny how traditions get built up, or practices and looks get sort of ingrained into the culture. But so many temples were soaring, cathedral-like structures that it was shocking, I think, to see something that was a little bit more human scale and more hugging. I’m super excited about it. I think it’s going to be beautiful.

But enough of that. Let’s get into the honor… We got 75 projects to go through in 45 minutes. Talk really fast.

KATIE: 

Oh!

STUART: 

No. I asked you to do the impossible and pick out, like, a dozen or so pieces that you think are, not necessarily your favorites because I know you can’t have favorites, but that kind of show us the breadth of art that’s going to be out on the playa this year. So, we’ll start wherever you want.

KATIE: 

Great. Yeah. It was hard to narrow it down to some because I kind of see themes overall, and so there may be, like as we’re talking about some of these in general, I may refer to another couple pieces that are like, well, this one is built in a family situation, and there were these other couple ones like that too.

What if we start with Antwane Lee coming from Chicago?

STUART: 

Oh, I love Antwane. You know, he was one of the artists we tapped on the shoulder to do a design concept for the Man base this year.

KATIE: 

Yeah.

STUART: 

It was a tough competition. He didn’t get in it, but it was really great to see his, his thinking there and to see it again here with the Pillar of Po Tolo. Did I say that right? 

KATIE: 

That’s right. Yeah.

STUART: 

Describe this for someone who’s got his eyes closed, or is listening on a podcast.

KATIE:

Yeah. It’s this cool blend of modern and ancient. There are four archways or portals that are kind of set at how you would have 12 and 3 and 6 and 9 on a clock. And in the center, there is a tower. A 25-foot tall tower, I would say. The concept is based on the Dogan people of Mali in West Africa.

It’s kind of based on their ancient cosmology and spiritual beliefs. Each of these portals are kind of like a gateway into star systems, and they will be aligned with Sirius, the star, which is where the Dogan people believed, you know, the universe kind of emanated from.

STUART: 

Yeah, I just, I looked it up, and Po Tolo – this is great – is the white dwarf companion star to Sirius that is invisible to the naked eye; it takes a telescope to see it, and yet the Dogon people have known about it for generations and generations.

KATIE: 

Oh my gosh. Wow. I didn’t know that. That’s cool.

STUART: 

So there’s this beautiful central tower with a very Afrofuturist kind of a look. It’s got soaring wings up above, and in these portals, I see that there are handprints. What’s that all about?

KATIE: 

That’s right. There’s a whole interactive biometric system involved in it. So you enter through one of the four portals and you come to kind of a little station or a stand where there are outlines of handprints, and you can put your own handprint on it. And as people, you know, place your palm on the handprint. And as people around the four stations all do that, there will be a response in the central column.

STUART: 

What kind of a response, we can only guess.

KATIE: 

Yes. I can’t tell you everything! 

STUART: 

The star people, the star people return. Anyway, that’s fantastic. A lot of interactivity, a lot of really great, cultural references. And, ah, who knows what will happen if the right hands, get laid on the right hand.

KATIE: 

Also, Antwane’s coming from Chicago, and he’s got a great community of folks that he’s activated there to work on this with him. So that’s nice to see a team from the Midwest.

STUART: 

Yeah, really great. He is a veteran of the program. We’ve had him on a couple of years ago.

KATIE: 

Oh good. Yeah.

STUART: 

And it’s great to see his work out again. 

Alright, what’s next?

KATIE: 

Oh though. Well, I think the biggest project we’re funding this year is The Sphinx Gate. These are a pair of 40-foot-tall Sphinxes facing one another, referencing The NeverEnding Story. And there’s a whole immersive experiential element to it where they’re different…. The artists, several of them, have a lot of background doing more immersive, experiential work, so they’ll be these different stations of the breath and the body and the mind. I think there are seven of these stations people can work through, either on their own or guided. 

And, it’s all about the “know thyself” aphorism from The NeverEnding Story. So people work through these stations and there is this opportunity for people to look inside themselves and see what they can learn. And then there’s a kind of central dais with some flaming braziers, and people will have this moment. And some sort of stretch goals of having lasers on the Sphinxes and a number of other interactive elements, but I think it will be pretty striking visually to see these two 40-foot-tall sphinxes on playa.

STUART: 

You know, there’s two kinds of sphinxes in this world. These look like the Greek sort of Sphinx, like the Oedipus variety of sphinx. They’re female, and they have wings. There’s also a male wingless sphinx out of Egyptian tradition that’s a lot more benevolent, actually. These sphinxes are kind of mean. They’re the ones that, you know, that asked Oedipus the classic riddle.

So, I don’t know what to expect. They look rather domineering.

KATIE: 

I love that you know about the two kinds of sphinxes. 

STUART: 

Well, the first thing when I saw there’s sphinxes is I’m like, what kind of sphinx? Is it the sphinx with the beard or the sphinx with the riddle who will kill you if you answer it wrong?

KATIE: 

I think the process of getting to know the deepest parts of yourself is not always pleasant. And so if it is looming over you, or if it’s that kind of vibe, maybe that’s a piece of their message.

STUART: 

Well, they’re very, very lovely in concept.

KATIE: 

We also did learn that the plural of “sphinx,” someone on my team looked up that the plural of “sphinx” is sphinges, so… 

STUART:

What? 

KATIE: 

Yeah. Who knew that was a word?

STUART:

Okay, word of the day.

KATIE:

Sphinges

STUART: 

All right, everybody, check out this pair of sphinges at The Sphinx Gate. The artists are Mareesa Stertz & Tania Abdul out of Oakland.

KATIE: 

They’re the lead artists, but a big, big crew will be working on this. 

STUART: 

Yeah, I’ll bet. It’s a really big project, and I can’t wait to see it. 

All right, what’s next?

KATIE: 

Let’s talk about the Kauyumari Ceremonial Center. By Leyla Issa, or Ley Brashka, which is coming from Mexico. She brought the Quetzalcoatl a couple of years ago, along the 3:00 promenade. She’s based in Mexico. And this is a giant deer. The Kauyumari is a sacred deer in Mexico.

There have been a few other Mexican groups to bring a, like the art car, the Maxa art car is a deer from Mexico. So this is certainly like a mythical spirit animal to the Mexican people. It’s a seated deer made from all kinds of recycled materials like mosaics and glass; very colorful; different beadwork. It will have some sort of like, relief to it, like, as you run your hand over it, for instance, it’ll have a lot of texture.

STUART: 

Like the classic Huichol beadwork, right? Replicating that on a massive scale?

KATIE: 

Yeah. That has a little more, this will I think we’ll have more mixed media and more texture to it. It’s large enough that you can enter inside. And she’s inspired by the sacred practice of peyote medicine, which grows in the area where this Kauyumari deer originates, the blue deer. And she works with an organization near where she lives in Mexico that does plant medicine ceremonies, and the idea is that this deer will then have a home at this place in Mexico after Burning Man.

STUART: 

Oh, cool. So when she talks about it becoming a ceremonial center, she means it’s not just out on playa but back home in Coahuila.

KATIE: 

Yeah, literally.

STUART: 

Beautiful. 

Okay, I’m really fascinated by this project from Ukraine this year. Last year’s Ukraine project was also one of my absolute all-time favorites. And this year’s, tell us a little bit about the Black Cloud.

KATIE: 

The Black Cloud. It’s literally a black cloud. It’s an inflatable, a custom made inflatable, 50 feet tall, 40 feet wide, 82 feet long; that’s what they’re intending to do. It’s unclear whether it will be attached to the ground or if it will actually be floating in the air, but it speaks very eloquently to our time.

STUART: 

Yes, black cloud on the horizon. Or actually, here, landed. I don’t know if it’s floating or being right on the ground in your face is more appropriate. Yeah. It does look a bit like a child’s drawing of a cloud.

KATIE: 

It does. The kind of puffy, circular shapes. 

STUART: 

Wow. 

KATIE: 

It’s interesting because some people respond to current times – you know, last year there were a lot of unicorns and rainbows, and this year we saw a lot of playfulness, a lot of playground-type things. But, some people take what might be considered hard times right now in that direction of like, well, let’s celebrate in a place like Black Rock City, where we can celebrate, where we get to set our own culture how we want it, and let’s find a place to connect and be joyful. And then other people are like, this is really how I feel about what’s happening right now. Like there is an enormous black cloud hanging over us, so let’s just be real like that.

STUART: 

What I loved about the “I’M FINE” piece last year was that, it kind of did both. It split the difference. It was a little playful and light at a distance it was playful and light, but when you got up close to it and saw that it was made entirely out of ravaged, war-damaged signage and all that, it had several meanings. And this piece, in a way, gets to the same thing. It seems childlike. I it were any other color than jet black, it would be suitable for a child’s coloring book.

KATIE: 

Yeah, right. It would be playful. Yeah. So it’ll be interesting to think about where to place that piece, the scale that it is and how it will be from far away or from up close.

STUART: 

Well, that’s another whole fun exercise you and your team get to go through, is figuring out where each of these pieces lives.

KATIE: 

That’s true. That’s one of my favorite parts of the year. I feel like that’s my time to be creative. People are like, “Oh, do you bring art to Burning Man?” I kind of have to laugh and be like, “Not anymore. Are you kidding? I don’t have the time for it now.” And that I kind of feel like is my art where I place everything.

STUART: 

And well done. 

Okay, let’s move on to Celestial Intertwinement.

KATIE:

Um. It’s a screaming booth. 

STUART: 

It’s a screaming booth. 

KATIE: 

Aaaahhhh!

STUART: 

Screaming booth! 

KATIE: 

This one, I’m excited about because you go inside the screaming booth, and people from the outside won’t be able to hear you, but the sound, the audio, has a visual response on the outside. So there are a series of mirrored boxes and lights, and depending on how you are emoting in this box, it will visually respond differently on the outside.

STUART: 

So it’s a glass box, or it’s mirrors facing out?

KATIE: 

Its mirrors facing out. That’s right.

STUART: 

The box appears to disappear, so we can’t see who’s inside. We can’t hear them, but we can see the visual results of what we would have been hearing. Is that right?

KATIE: 

Yes. That’s it. Yeah. So I don’t know if the artist gave exact examples, but I can imagine if someone was just like full of rage, you know, it might be really intense red kind of pulsing sort of. Or, you know, maybe somebody sings a sweet song, and the lights might be more gentle. It will respond to the audio from inside the box.

STUART: 

Screaming booth.

KATIE: 

Screaming booth.

STUART: 

Is it time for us to release our feelings audibly?

KATIE: 

Aaahhhh!

The crazy part is there were actually two proposals for screaming bids this year.

Yeah. In the 11 years I’ve been here, I haven’t seen a screaming booth, and I mean 20+ years of going to Burning Man, I haven’t seen a screaming booth. And this year, we got two proposals for screaming boots. And like I was saying before about making a collection, you know, we did have a moment of like, well, maybe we need them both.

STUART: 

Sign of the times.

KATIE: 

Yeah. Sign of the times.

STUART: 

Okay, I’m putting this on my must-see list, must-scream list!

KATIE: 

Last. Yeah, absolutely. Like, is it ready yet? Can I use it now?

STUART: 

So, Katie, let’s talk about fire for a minute because, you know, the first word in Burning Man is, of course, burning. What’s the big Burn we’re looking forward to this year?

KATIE: 

Well, we have around 15 projects that are going to incorporate fire in one way or another in the Honoraria group this year, some flame effects, some want to do a complete burning down. It seems like one of the big burns is going to be a half-submerged submarine brought from a group from Reno that are doing a whole big pyro show. It’s part of the group that did the train wreck a number of years ago, so if that gives you any indication of the scale. If you don’t know the project, the train wreck, I just the name of it gives you some idea.

STUART: 

Oh, of course, that one will go down in legend. What’s that submarine called?

KATIE: 

Oh, it’s called “What Lies Beneath?”

STUART: 

I love partially submerged things. That’s an old theme that kind of never gets tired. When something is sunk into the mud, and only a little bit of it is above the surface, right?

KATIE:

That’s so true. I love to play with things that work with the environment that it’s in. And I really remember my first year seeing a horse that was kind of half-hidden — or a Pegasus, I think it was — and I thought that was just the most clever thing ever to play with the ground like that.

STUART: 

Yeah. Way, way in the way back. Pepe Ozan did a sculpture that was a man’s head from the eyes up from the eyebrows up.

KATIE: 

I remember, yeah, 2005, I think.

STUART: 

…really playing with the horizon as the feature and the art.

KATIE: 

So yeah, the submarine will be cool.

There’s something else that I think might be cool to talk about that’s called PropanePunk that is a guy originally from a small town in Texas. He got a little bit into playing with fire art. He learned a lot more about it living in Houston. He now lives in Arcadia, California. He’s going to make this thing that’s, well, it’s kind of like upcycled materials, basically, and it’s more or less a pipe organ. During the daytime, it’ll function with compressed air, and in the nighttime it’ll function with flame effects.

STUART: 

In the rendering. I’m looking at it. It looks like the biggest pipe organ in the biggest cathedral, like the one in the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, but all made out of upcycled stuff, and with fire; of course, music and fire. This one sounds like it’ll be a real crowd-pleaser and maybe draw people to it across a dark playa.

KATIE: 

Yeah. And actually, people will be able to operate it, which is a nice element of it.

STUART: 

So cool. 

Okay, another one that’s going to draw people across the playa; I guess no year of art would be complete without a hippie trap.

KATIE: 

Absolutely. And there are several this year. You know, when we look at what we select, like, I think about all the kinds of people that come to Burning Man and even just myself in my own life of 25 years of coming to the black Rock city, like how different I am over time. And you just think about, like, all the types of people that are there and they all like their own little thing.

And absolutely, people love tripper traps. And so we are certain to fund several of them every year just because it’s an excellent experience to sit there and just be mesmerized.

STUART: 

Well, I am looking at Event Horizon, and I love this, “the center is a four-foot spherical infinity mirror with LEDs facing inward along its equator. The sphere can be kept stationary while the rings rotate around it, by computing the Euler angles to invert the rotation of the three outer rings.”

You had me at “Euler angles.”

KATIE: 

I really learned a lot by reading these proposals, I’ll tell you.

STUART: 

It does look a bit like a like a black hole.

KATIE: 

Yeah, like a gyroscopic black hole and tall, like 30-something feet tall. 

What’s interesting: we call Burning Man an event, and the term ‘event horizon’ is… I remember learning what that I was like. What’s an event horizon? And learning what that was at one point. And actually this year we had two proposals for projects called Event Horizon.

And the committee was like, “Well, we can’t accept both of them,” but they were so different and we liked them both a lot, and we actually accepted them both. And so one of them is going to change their name just slightly to The Event Horizon or something like that, so we don’t mix them up on the back end.

STUART: 

What’s the other one look like?

KATIE: 

The other one is also a sort of portal like shape. It’s a ring standing on end, as if you could walk through it, almost like branches woven together but made out of metal… coming from Utah.

STUART: 

All right. And I am fascinated by the fact that there’s not just one, but two pieces that look like a plumbing supply store exploded.

KATIE: 

Sinksphere!

STUART: 

Sinksphere!

KATIE: 

Sinksphere is a rotating sphere built out of recycled stainless steel sinks and other plumbing. It’s kind of like a disco ball meets Death Star. I think it’s not so obvious what it is from afar until you come up to it and you’re like, “What? Sinks?” So, yeah, we have sinks and sphinx this year. It’s brought by Scottysoltronic from Utah, who has this group called the JenkStars. They distinguish junk from junk things that still have a lot of life left in them that you can upcycle or recycle and reuse. So their group is known for repurposing objects like this.

STUART: 

Well, not exactly Readymade, but I think inspired by the ghost of Duchamp.

Down the Drain by Michael Christian is another one that looks like plumbing, a whole plumbing warehouse, might have suffered an explosion.

KATIE: 

It’s tubes and pipes and probably some toilet parts. And it’s all steel, all kind of plumbing style pipes that are twisting and converging and kind of get more into, like a dense bundle at the center of it all; probably about 12 feet tall or so.

STUART: 

I think this might be cathartic, and I love Michael Christian’s work. It’s so good to see that he’s still coming out and doing crazy good stuff out on playa. Much appreciation.

KATIE: 

Absolutely. He’s wonderful, and we really do like to see such a range of artists submit in this program, everything from people who have been coming for 25+ years to people who have never even been to Black Rock City. So nice to have the whole range.

STUART: 

All right. What else is coming out that we want to talk about, Katie?

KATIE: 

Let’s see. A project I’m excited about is called Guma, or I think the full name is Guma Chromosomal Collision, and it’s a mouthful. It’s an animal. And as I was reading, I’m like, what kind of animal is this? Is it a lizard? Is this a dinosaur? What am I looking at? But it’s actually like an invented animal. They’ve created something that’s a past, future, alien sort of animal that is big. It’s like 65 to 70 feet long and, but kind of in the maybe related to lizard sort of family.

STUART: 

Yeah. It’s got a little bit of a dinosaur look to it.

KATIE: 

MmmHm. What I think is super fun about it is that it’s coming from a high school gir,l based in Petaluma. 

STUART: 

Oh, no way. Oh, fantastic. 

KATIE: 

…who luckily has a father who has brought a number of artworks to Burning Man before. Her dad is Kevin Clark, and he is supporting her, but it’s very much her idea and her construction. With his backup.

I love that.

STUART: 

She is Harper Clark, right?

KATIE: 

That’s right.

STUART: 

That is fun. That really does look like, it’s a very notional, imaginary, very symmetrical-looking beast from head to tail, and huge.

KATIE: 

Yeah. Long tail and arching up high. 

STUART: 

Cool.

Guma.

KATIE: 

Yeah. We actually had a number of family-related projects this year. There was a Peruvian American who’s based in the Bay Area now, but he’s primarily a painter. Hasn’t been to Burning Man before. But proposed a kind of a fire hummingbird sculpture that’s kind of like a pyramid with this thing on top – with this fun fire hummingbird on the top. And his son, who has also not been to Burning Man but has more skills with construction, is going to help the father move into the world of sculpture from painting. So that’s a sweet collaboration. 

There’s also another project called Tim’s Bench, where there are two sisters who went to Burning Man with their dad something like 14 or 15 times. And the dad recently passed away. And the dad used to always be like, “There’s nowhere to sit down in this place.” And so they’re making a couple of benches in his honor. So that will be sweet to have.

STUART: 

Sweet.

KATIE: 

I like when people bring their family into the mix with their creativity.

STUART: 

Yes. Very soon, we’ll be seeing a younger generation of Hazards out there too, right? Making art.

KATIE: 

Yeah, well, my son’s almost four. It’ll be, this will be his fourth year at Burning Man. So…

STUART:

Exciting.

KATIE:

… someday.

STUART: 

Well, I sure hope my daughter will come back one of these years. She went three or four times in her like tweens and teens, and has been away for a bit. But now that she’s got a couple of kids of her own, I hope to see them all out there soon. I hope you’re listening, Gailen. You’re coming back to the playa. 

All right, next up, I am super, super excited to see that the Flaming Lotus Girls are doing another epic, gigantic, flaming masterpiece. Tell us about Haven.

KATIE: 

Yeah, I’m excited about Haven, and having FLG back with such a big project. Margaret Long from Flaming Lotus Girls, who has led a number of pieces over the years, is going to be the lead for this, it’s just great. It’s called Haven, and it’s a 40ft diameter immersive fire sculpture that’s essentially a nest, that’s populated by unusual and unique birds of all different sizes, and some different eggs, and places with, you know, how they do they use their hydraulics. And so there’ll be some movement and interaction, and seating, and places for people to hang out and explore.

STUART: 

Yeah. I’m seeing birds of all shapes and sizes in the rendering. It looks like an egret, a giant raven, a pigeon spinning fire, and some smaller birds, I guess, that are out of wood rather than out of metal.

KATIE: 

I think. So, yeah, it seems to be mixed media. 

And strangely, I can’t believe how many bird proposals we received and actually selected; so many different kinds of birds. We’ve got a group from the Philippines bringing this project that’s kind of like a mythical bird woman. And we have artists from Puerto Rico who will be new to Black Rock City, who’s bringing a petirre bird that’s local to, a Puerto Rican kind of bird. And we have a firebird with wings that will articulate and move in and out. And this Haven project from FLG. Oh, and we’ve got a project called Nested Heart, that’s these beautiful birds from Los Angeles that are made out of a range of unusual materials. They’re kind of this, like, glowing white fabric. 

We have, um, a rubber chicken project that’s full of like all kinds of rubber chickens.

STUART: 

Of course!

KATIE: 

It’s interesting to me. What about birds in this moment? I mean, we also declined a number of bird projects ‘cause we were like, we can’t have this many birds! It does make me wonder what’s happening in this moment? Is it people wanting to fly away? Is it some kind of nesting instinct? Birds have a range of symbolism, and maybe different artists are coming at it from different ways, but I’ve never seen this many birds in our final selection.

STUART: 

I think you may have nailed it with that escapism, that desire to get above it all.

Hey, one thing I’m not seeing a lot of is things that are very specifically on theme. Are there some things I’m not seeing here?

KATIE: 

There are a few. I mean, you know more than anyone about the theme and how people can take it so literally sometimes, and sometimes people have a harder time interpreting it visually. And I think that this was one that people have had a harder time interpreting. You know, something like ANIMALIA, everyone was right on it. People submit animals every year, no matter what.

This one, a couple of things I think that are interesting. Well, Antwane’s project that we talked about at the beginning has that kind of futuristic take on it.

There’s a cool project that’s, it’s kind of about the history of power generation. That makes it sound boring, but it’s not at all. It’s kind of this tiered tower, wider at the bottom, and it gets smaller as it goes up. It has representations of different ways that humans have generated power over time; solar, wind, like a bunch of different things in there.

And people can climb up it. And then there is a pole that you slide down, that is built in such a way that the friction of sliding down the pole is also generating energy. And the project captures that, and uses it then to feed into power the piece.

STUART: 

Just like static electricity to make your hair stand up?

KATIE: 

And something like that. I don’t know the science. Yeah.

STUART: 

Well, my feelings aren’t hurt at all. I’m really happy that this year’s Man Base by Mark Rivera, who’s another, has been an honorarium artist in the past. He’s designed a Man base. You’ve seen the renderings of this, right?

KATIE: 

I have.

STUART: 

It’s very much reminiscent of, to me of, like the Eiffel Tower and that beautiful fin de siècle architecture of using kind of structural iron, but out of wood. I think that could be pretty amazing. And it’s very, very retro-futuristic in a good way.

KATIE: 

That’ll be cool. I’m excited for that.

There is another piece that I like a lot. It’s kind of a carousel, but it looks totally out of The Jetsons. It’s shiny silver. It’s kind of on this round base, like a little bowl holding it there. And then the flat level. Someone will have to climb up and help someone else climb up onto it. The base is very narrow, that it rests on, and then there’s a large platform on top of that, with some shiny silver modular-like space-agey-looking stuff. I think that’ll be a cool nod to the future.

STUART: 

Nice. Okay, I’ll put on my mylar jumpsuit and go take a look at that.

KATIE: 

100%. Yes.

STUART: 

All right. What about “Hey Queen” by Chelsey Hathman? 

KATIE: 

Hey, Queen!

Chelsey’s day job is at the Exploratorium developing and building exhibits there, and she had a project at Black Rock City, a small one that was kind of this like, music box. Hey Queen is a climbable structure that essentially a Black woman bust, like, from the shoulders up through the head, and it’s a playground at the same time. So she has these earrings that are swings, and she’s got, um, dreadlocks that can be used for jump ropes. And she’s wearing a crown, you know, for the queen, that is a kind of merry-go-round. So you can, like, shimmy up somehow and then spin around on the merry-go-round on her crown.

STUART: 

And how big is this? It looks pretty large. If I can swing off the earrings.

KATIE: 

It’s about 15 feet tall.

STUART: 

Love it.

KATIE: 

That’s kind of one of the things. Have a lot of playground-looking stuff this year. Different kinds of swings submitted and slides. And, this is a really fun take on that.

STUART: 

Goodness knows, we could use a little bit of play.

KATIE: 

Absolutely.

STUART: 

The on, in the list here, it seems like it’s a play on words as much as it is anything else. Patches?

KATIE: 

Yeah, absolutely. It’s cute and sweet and funny and it’s called Patches. And it’s a little house, and it’s everything made of patchwork, like tire patches and Sour Patches. And outside there’s like a little pumpkin patch growing on it. So it’s a lot of eccentric details, mostly made from upcycled and salvaged materials.

STUART: 

It’s a little cottage with a weathervane on top and a little patch of grass. Hopefully not real grass.

KATIE: 

No.

STUART: 

Because it’s just cruel, it’s cruel to bring any living thing out to the desert.

KATIE: 

The lead artist is a New York City-based interior designer with a background in sculpture. They’re from Brooklyn and LA; they’re actually going to build in some place called Wonder Valley, California.

STUART: 

But where will they be collecting all of their materials that will turn into patches? Will they be thrift-shopping along the way? Will they be, uh, will there be any DPW patches in there?

KATIE: 

Oh, cute. Right. There are so many patches in Black Rock City.

STUART: 

It is a kingdom of patches.

KATIE: 

Every other art project could contribute their patch. 

STUART: 

All right, take us home. Give us one more to fill out our, uh, interesting dozen.

KATIE: 

Yeah, this one I’m so excited about. It’s called The Lost Troll, and it’s by the artist Thomas Dambo, from Denmark. And some of you may be familiar with Thomas Dambo’s trolls. I first saw one at an arboretum outside Chicago, where my parents are members, visiting there probably ten years ago. And I was like, “What is this? Who made this thing?”

He’s made trolls all over the world now. And he applied to come to Burning Man in 2020. He applied to the honorarium program and we selected him. And we were like, oh yay! Thomas Dambo is going to bring a troll. And then you know what happened in 2020? The event didn’t happen. And we were able then to invite those artists to come in 2022.

But it didn’t work for Thomas. They had a baby, and a bunch of things happened. And so it has finally lined up for him to be able to be in the US to bring us this troll. 

It’s a cute troll. It’s about 23 feet tall, about 20 feet wide. So that scale. And I believe that there is a staircase inside that you can climb up to, and the troll is kind of squatting down, and he’s resting his elbows on his knees and holding his hands in front of him and looking down at the hands.

I think that the goal is that people can climb in and then be the people in those hands. But I’m not sure if that’s actually going to happen by the time we work through all the engineering, etc. but regardless, he makes these. Have you seen any of his trolls before?

STUART: 

No, I, When I read about this, I had to go and look it up. It’s calling it the modern-day fairy tale, the Trail of a Thousand Trolls. And he’s, he’s 150 trolls into his thousand. That’s definitely setting the bar pretty high. But yeah, with an aim to, I’m reading this teach about recycling, sustainability, and the importance of protecting Mother Nature with trolls. I love it.

KATIE: 

MmmHm. With trolls. They’re cute trolls, they’re not the creepy trolls.

STUART: 

And they are. They’re pretty approachable, approachable trolls.

KATIE: 

Absolutely. Yeah. And such personality he makes in the faces and, yeah, they’re each their own little creatures. And I did a program called Art Speaks, where I interviewed artists all around the world, and I did an interview with Thomas Dambo. And he actually walked us through his whole studio in Denmark, and he talked a lot about all the materials he uses and where how he gets reclaimed wood for a lot of the trolls; really lovely guy. I’m excited for him to come.

STUART: 

Outstanding.

KATIE: 

And there’s something so satisfying about this, like five years later, it’s finally happening, you know; if it just came out of the blue, you’re like, “Okay, great.” But there’s something rewarding about feeling like you’re finally doing a thing you’ve been thinking about for a long time.

STUART: 

Well, I can’t wait. I just wish the pages would start flying off the calendar, like in an old movie when they show the passage of time, by a vortex, to get out there and see all this stuff. It’s been too long, and, boy, do we need a little bit of a break from the default world.

KATIE: 

So. Yeah, absolutely. And so these are just 12 out of what will likely be, you know, close to 400 projects this year. So there’s a lot to look forward to.

STUART: 

So what are you not telling us about, Katie?

KATIE: 

Well, we don’t even know what many of the things will be. The form to register your art just opened.

STUART: 

Oh, that’s right.

KATIE: 

And it’s open through the end of May. The ideas will just keep pouring in.

STUART: 

That’s right. Honoraria are just the tip of the iceberg.

What do we call self-funded?

KATIE: 

Registered. We used to call them self-funded…

STUART: 

We used to call it wild art, out in the wild.

KATIE: 

…but even the Honoraria self-fund a little bit, so that didn’t feel like an accurate name. 

STUART: 

But that’s not to say we don’t support them; we do with logistics and placement and all that stuff.

KATIE: 

Actually, we nowadays support registered artists about equally as Honoraria artists. Everyone gets access to heavy equipment and engineering review, and anyone that wants to bring art gets assigned to a liaison on my team, so they’ve got one point of contact the whole way with all kinds of support along the way. So.

STUART: 

So yeah, the ARTery team is, is big and bad. 

KATIE: 

Yes we are. I’m proud of us.

STUART: 

There’s a lot of you, a lot of you, I know, and a very well, well-running machine.

KATIE: 

With a lot of collective experience and, um, a couple hundred volunteers on playa and 400 sculptural installations. It’s not something that just kind of happens, you know, like, it’s a, so much work comes from the artists, but there’s so much on our side to work with everyone along the way, and it’s such a unique place to install work that it takes a lot of support.

STUART: 

Yeah, some of them really supermassive. I mean, you guys support the Temple project as well.

KATIE: 

…very closely. You know, we select them in December and we have someone that’s, you know, like a significant part of their job from January through… it kind of never ends, for them, you know. But certainly through the event it’s really working closely with them at their build site regularly. So, exciting things in store for us.

STUART: 

I’m excited.

KATIE: 

And birds.

STUART: 

And birds.

KATIE: 

Birds and birds.

STUART: 

I’ll keep my eyes to the sky. And yeah, pretty soon I’m gonna have to start writing next year’s theme. Got any ideas?

KATIE: 

Oh. That’s a hard question out of nowhere. Let’s talk. Let’s talk.

STUART: 

A lot of my friends, they can answer that in a heartbeat because they’ve been carrying around a theme idea for years. Hey, Stuart, how about “BREAKFAST”?

KATIE: 

How about “SPORTS”?

I hear BREAKFAST and SPORTS are the ones people always say. And you’re like, no, they would be horrible themes.

STUART: 

Well, we’ll work on that.

KATIE: 

I always like things that relate to the natural world because we are in a landscape that’s so kind of alien but also natural, and such a big part about where we are is the landscape, where we have it. I think people that play with that and take advantage of the unique location really have an opportunity to achieve something interesting.

STUART:

I look forward to sitting with you out in that crazy, weird landscape. Maybe we’ll have a cup of tea and talk about it some more. What do you say?

KATIE: 

That’s great. Let’s climb into that troll’s hands if that’s even the thing. Have a chat.

STUART: 

Let’s ask the troll!

KATIE: 

Yes, ask the troll.

STUART: 

Ask Thomas Danbo’s troll. 

Well, thank you, Katie Hazard for joining me. I’m psyched. I hope everyone else is, too, about all the Honoraria art that’s going to be out at Black Rock City this year.

KATIE: 

Absolutely. And please join us for Desert Arts Preview. It’s coming in early June, so we’ll have the artists themselves telling their stories and….

STUART: 

Fantastic.

KATIE: 

…the art will all be listed on the website pretty soon. So yeah, we’re excited too.

STUART: 

Thank you so much for joining me, Katie Hazard. It’s been a pleasure.

KATIE: 

It’s always fun to talk with you, Stuart. I love getting to chat about the art and especially with you. So, thanks so much for having me. 

STUART: 

Yay. 

KATIE: 

Yay!

STUART: 

All right. See you out there, if not sooner.

KATIE: 

Bye.

STUART: 

Okay. Screaming booth! Screaming booth! AHHH!

KATIE: 

AHHHHHHHH!

STUART:

AHHHHHHH!

And that’s a wrap on another episode of Burning Man LIVE. If you want to go really deep into the archives, we have them all with transcripts and bonus content at LIVE.BURNINGMAN.ORG

I want to thank everyone who helped put this episode together: Actiongirl, DJ Toil, kbot, Lotus Position, and of course Vav-Michael-Vav.

And I want to thank each and every one of you for all the things you do, for listening to the program, for sharing it with your friends, for writing us a good review, or for maybe slipping a few of your hard-earned dollars into the money slot at donate.burningman.org. We are a nonprofit and that’s what keeps the lights on.

So that’s it. 

Thanks, Larry.

 

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